Skills and Employment at HMP Wandsworth

Mr Dave Asker is the Head of Learning, Skills and Employment at HMP Wandsworth.

Whilst you were showing me around your new motorcycle repair facility, I was reflecting on the type of work available to prisoners compared with times past. Traditionally we used to hear about stitching mailbags and putting ear pieces together, work with little or no training content, but now we hear that has changed and the work offered is based on training value. Do you think that a fair view?

Dave Asker Yes, at one time we were completely production led, contract services, textile tailoring; our last production workshop was a tailors, and now all our Training Centres have work based on vocational skills and training for future employment.

Why has that happened and is it just at Wandsworth, or across the estate?

Dave Asker The Prison Service has developed a more enlightened attitude and it is spreading throughout the estate I believe. It is harder to do in some prisons compared with others, but I’m sure everybody is moving that way. If we can offer prisoners work that can be useful for employment outside or further education and training, that has to be the way forward. Also, we have noticed at Wandsworth that it improved relationships between staff and prisoners, not just in the training centres, but that mood has been taken back onto the wings. We have found it helps prisoners and staff to work together better.

I understand that from this coming Friday the last of the money making industrial activities comes to an end, is that correct?

Dave Asker That is correct and after that we start our latest teaching academy.
I guess that means the prison is going over to training and education completely. But over the months and years the industrial work must have generated useful funds, how are you going to make-up for that?
Dave Asker I believe that there could be a possibility of a funding loss because the companies we are working with may be finding it tougher on the outside and may not have as many funds to invest, but there is still money available through various external agencies.

So the funds lost from industrial work are liable to be replaced by funds and grants for education, training and other agencies and thereby changing, in due course, the nature, or mood of the prison for the better?

Dave Asker Yes, that is the way we intend to go. We are a local cat B prison and we serve the courts and keep people in custody and protect the public, that is our basic function. But there are different ways of treating people in custody and I think we have the balance right. We have 1,000 prisoners engaged in some form of purposeful activity every day. A prisoner has a busy first day settling-in all the time being carefully monitored. He would be supported for the next couple of days followed by a week on the Induction Wing and then he may seek work or education. He might start by cleaning on the wings, then spend a couple of days in education or vocational training, in any case, he is soon out of his cell. The regime we run now means that more people are out of their cells and that has made a massive difference to the establishment’s mood.

I can remember speaking to the Head of the Prison Service about five or six years ago and he was stressing the importance of meaningful activity, but was having trouble nailing a practical definition and a method of implementing. It seems to me that you have cracked it, do you think that is correct?

Dave Asker Yes, I hope so. We are offering a varied programme for various abilities.

Since I have become, more or less, a regular visitor, I have seen the start of the bricklayers course and the electrician’s set-up and now you have a motor-bike repair centre. What took the prison down that route?

Dave Asker Every year Learning and Skills carry out an analysis of the establishment and produce a report, for the last couple of years the offenders have remarked on mechanics and catering or rather the lack of. I tried to get cars for repair into the prison, but they don’t easily fit into a Victorian prison! When that failed, it seems natural to take-on the smaller machine, so we decided on motorbikes in the former laundry despatch room. We spoke to our educational provider, Kensington and Chelsea College, and the Principal Mike Jutsum said he really liked the idea. There was a pow-wow with the governor on how we were going to take it forward and the Learning and Skills Council came for an inspection, supported the idea and provided the funding.

There are a lot of motorbike manufacturers out there, how did you choose Kawasaki?

Dave Asker A manager from Kawasaki visited Wandsworth and looked at the intended area and he supplied four machines and that was how it started. So, they were rolled through the door, which surprised the learners nearby. Tools and an instructor became the problem, so I visited a couple of colleges and then went to Lambeth College, where their Motorcycle guru gave the prison support and ideas on how to take this project forward.

When I popped into the bike workshop for a look round there were about ten bikes, benches with computers containing all the manuals, tools all neat and tidy and stowages for them all on the walls; it looked very much like a F1 establishment! Did you take a look at a similar garage for ideas?

Dave Asker Yes, but I thought we were a special case and needed less bikes and more room around. So we asked our Motorcycle Instructors to go out to the colleges to get ideas and they laid out the workshop in a professional manner. Perhaps after a year or two we might start work on a project bike for exhibition; there are very few Kawasaki 1300s about. We would encourage two prisoners to take an old model, strip it down, clean it up, re-assemble and create a showpiece.

Do Richie and Chris have engineering experience?

Dave Asker Chris is an ex-mechanic and Richie has worked on bikes. Both have been to Lambeth College and in the next two years they will be going to Diploma level in teaching for which funding is available. Craig our third tutor started later.

What is the prisoner take-up; I should think they would be crushed in the rush?

Dave Asker The first course started April/May 2009 and we are now on the third course. The first course had a few ‘blips’ mostly because the staff were feeling their way, the second course went well and the current course is running with 20 learners plus two men who have done the earlier course and are working as peer tutors supporting the other learners. It’s really working well.

…and the course duration?

Dave Asker In three months they complete the entry level or level 1. One learner has left, has employment and has enrolled for level 2 at college and has prospects of going forward from there.

Is it necessary to have a certain level of literacy before you take them on? After all they have to be able to read to follow the manuals.

Dave Asker Every prisoner has a numeracy and literacy test on induction, but we don’t stop them going into these areas if they fail. They will learn by observing, copying and understanding how useful a computer can be. A computer is part of everyday life and something they have all got to get used to. They are not keen on the idea of joining a maths class, but the lure of vocational skills attracts them and it is surprising how much they pick-up. They don’t see it as education at all!

Did I hear something about Timpsons, the shoe people being interested in coming to Wandsworth?

Dave Asker Timpsons looked at three London prisons to put in what is called Timpsons’ Academy. Timpsons is based in Liverpool and specialises in shoe repairs, engraving and watch repairs. They have a massive amount of shops as well as a franchise with Kodak with a booth in seven Tesco stores. James Timpson is happy to employ ex-offenders and support them to move to different parts of the country if need be. The prison Service made the connection because the company wanted to get involved in London where they have lots of outlets. They visited Wandsworth, Pentonville and Scrubs. Our employment manager and I went to Liverpool and had a good look at Timpson’s Academy and hopefully left a strong message behind that we wanted it at Wandsworth and luckily we were selected.  So Timpson funded half of the set up costs and OESS supplied the rest of the funds.

So you are going to get trained personnel from Timpson’s, paid for by somebody on the outside? That closes the funding gap a bit doesn’t it?

Dave Asker We will be looking to have a minimum of 24 learners on the course and the course will be modular based. I think the more modular sections there are, the better it will be. Before they are released from here, we will be earmarking learners and Timpson’s human relations experts will be coming in to interview them; so interview on Friday, hopefully start work on Monday! We shall be putting one member of staff on the job and Timpsons will be adding two.

Some people are very generous. Thank you Dave for speaking to me today.