Mr Clive Dodds is the Assistant Director of Security and Operations at Yarl’s Wood Immigration Removal Centre and has been in the post since April this year. Earlier, he had served eight years as a prison officer at HMP Full Sutton; then worked with the West Yorkshire police visiting prisons dealing with substance misusers and prolific offenders before returning to the Prison Service at HMP Wealstun, supervising a voluntary drug testing unit. Immediately before his present post, he was at HMP Lindholme as the Drug Programme Manager.

What is the function of the Assistant Director of Security and Operations here at Yarl’s Wood?

Clive Dodds I oversee the security department, operations, including escorts and visits, reception, IT, the gate and communications.

That’s an impressive list. You have spent a while outside the Prison Service. What inspired you to leave HMP Full Sutton to help the police with their prolific offender programmes?

So with long experience as a discipline officer in a prison, a job with the police then back to prisons. What made you decide to join the private custodial sector?

Clive Dodds I’ve always been keen to progress and try and grab new experiences and opportunities with both hands. When the opportunity came up with Serco, I felt that it was an opportunity I couldn’t refuse. The variety and opportunity felt greater than that of HMP Prisons, plus the diverse nature of the company was appealing. E.g. Serco have business interests all over the world and in a variety of business sectors. The Prison Service was good to me and I learnt a lot as I did in the community.

I like the fact that Serco is forever growing and is outcome and solution focused. That’s what customers want and need. The customers are the tax payers and they get a good service with Serco. I saw that with SERCO opportunities of doing a better job and then enjoying the satisfaction that gives though, to be honest, a dozen years ago I wouldn’t have considered it. But after seeing what had been done at Doncaster and Lowdham Grange, I was impressed.

Let’s move on to the job you do here… broadly how do you see better outcomes emerging from the work you and your staff do here at Yarl’s Wood?

Clive Dodds I would say that I am a very methodical worker and a strong believer in teamwork. Broadly we all have a common goal and every individual member of the team has a clear view of what to do towards it.

What do you do on a daily basis?

Clive Dodds First thing in the morning, at about 07.20, I read my emails to see what has happened during the night and explore if there is anything I need to deal with, or make plans to deal with during the day. Morning meeting at 09.00 for managers around the boardroom table, which takes 30 to 45 minutes and then from 10.00 onwards I work through my priority tasks. I do have a wish list of things we need to work on which we are gradually working through. Remember, I’ve only been here four months and I have a wish list a mile long! Rome was never built in a day.

You have a dual role, security and operations. Is the security function a complex thing?

Clive Dodds In every establishment in which I have worked security has always seemed to be a one-way flow, information comes in, but rarely goes out…very much on a need-to-know basis and I’d like to change that. I’ve always been an advocate of sharing knowledge as far as possible. I like to tell people what we are doing and the feedback I get from that is valuable. We produce a security monthly bulletin which is circulated to all areas in the centre, so the security function is very much based on communication.

We do have walls and barbed wire and, I believe, we could take the wire down because we do not rely on it. We rely on dynamic security and the people we have here are not convicted of anything. We have single females and families with children and physical  barriers are not so important, whereas the communications side is free flowing, which enables us to deal with issues arising promptly. We speak with the detainees normally and there is mutual respect between the two parties. That is a massive thing, because we aim to establish a community environment. In fact we are trying to get away from calling the people here detainees, we prefer to call them residents, it is a ‘softer’ approach which allows us to get along better. So security comes down to good communications, we hear about things and deal with them appropriately.  Security, of course, works both ways, the residents want to feel secure themselves.

As for the Operations side of my role, I do oversee visits, reception communications room, gate, Court hearing centre etc. There is no doubt that it is a complex duel role, however, with effective management and communication my team and I manage appropriately and effectively. As I have mention before, it is a team effort.

How do you deal with the few who step-out of the bounds of what we might call acceptable behaviour?

Clive Dodds We have a system of what the prison system call segregation, however in immigration we have removal from ‘association’ and the escalated version called ‘temporary confinement’, we call the unit used for this, Kingfisher. We manage the vast majority of our residents on the units and very rarely use the system of removing residents from association or temporarily confining them. If a person (say) becomes violent, then we can remove them or secure them for their own safety and for the safety of others. If a person is being very verbal, disrupting the unit, using aggressive or offensive behaviour, then we can remove them from association and give them time to de-escalate by placing them in kingfisher, which allows them the space to calm down. The situation could last from 5 minutes to a couple of hours…a cooling off period is a good description or a measured response. Prolonging periods of isolation from other residents isn’t done lightly.

Do you have a problem with drugs and/or contraband?

Clive Dodds I’ve worked in the prisons for a long time and I am familiar with establishments that are rife with substance misuse. I can safely say that only on very few occasions do people use illicit substances here.

Occasionally we do find evidence of cannabis used for recreational purposes, but the residents here, on the whole, do not use drugs. As for contraband, we have a shop selling a very wide range of goods so there is hardly a need.

Are there restrictions on the use of mobile ‘phones?

Clive Dodds There are no restrictions on the use of mobile ‘phones as long as it doesn’t have the internet or camera facilities. You have picked-up one of the very few constraints that apply here.

I’m surprised to hear that you allow mobile ‘phones because many, perhaps most, custodial establishments consider them a security risk. Why do you take the opposite point of view?

Clive Dodds It’s because of our policy of fostering a happy community. Remember our residents are not criminals and we treat them with respect and dignity. They should not be deprived of facilities available to everybody outside without a very good reason and we are not convinced that a ban would be appropriate here. We believe if we treat people properly, they will react similarly. Cameras, we believe, could have a security implication along with recordable features. We have computers for the use of residents with internet access only, slightly downgraded from full access. Access to sites related to terrorism, sites which oppose our safeguarding procedures, chat sites and such like are denied.

I know about the shop you have here and that it sells commodities in glass jars and tin cans. Coming from the Prison Service didn’t that give you a shock when you arrived for duty on day one?

Clive Dodds I have to admit that it made me quiver! But thinking about it logically, if a person is determined enough, a weapon can be made out of anything. For example, a biro could be used as a weapon. Although the prisons do not allow tin cans and glass jars, there are lots of everyday things there that can do serious damage; in the kitchens and workshops especially. The people we have here are not likely to need to fashion a weapon from a tin can. Prisons do what they need to do and so do we; both have an appropriate method of operating; horses for courses. We focus on the fact that the residents in Yarl’s Wood are not convicted prisoners.

Do you have CCTV? Do you use it and does it fit its purpose?

Clive Dodds We use it more frequently than I would have imagined in this environment. The CCTV we find useful for gathering information if something goes wrong or for safety purposes, we can rewind and make informed decisions on what to do next. For that reason alone I think it’s a good thing.

What circumstances would make a bad day for you at the office?

Clive Dodds Since I have been here, I have been struck by how quickly small things can add-up and cause dissatisfaction. We have to be on the ball all the time, a balancing act between treating the people here properly and keeping order. So a bad day for me would be dealing with outside protestors, because I know things can escalate and you can never second guess what they are going to do. We increase the security when we anticipate potential protests and on the whole nothing happens. On the other hand, we have had times where protests have occurred and have impacted on the normal day to day regime of our residents in the centre.

You don’t get a very good press, so I’m going to ask could more be done to make people realise that this is a forward thinking, correct and liberal establishment where people are held as residents pending their legal departure?

Clive Dodds People in the media are not always absolutely objective when they write about our sort of establishment. Their research is not always thorough; they do have deadlines to meet which doesn’t assist a deep understanding of the situation here. I’ve noticed that they rarely say positive things, I guess that is not newsworthy, and are loath to admit that really this is not a bad place considering the job we have to do. They do not always understand our efforts to foster a community spirit among the residents where staff is helpful and friendly. I saw a picture on the TV recently; it was taken in dull light and just showed a bare wall. I believe that this may have been deliberate. Our establishment is bright and cheerful and the particular media group had access to new footage from the previous visit. I guess you are suggesting that our public relations could be improved and I think you are right. But it’s not an easy ‘package’ to sell to a correspondent, custodial establishment never are, there will always be dissenters. I believe we have the right policy and that is to treat people with respect and keep them safe and healthy while they are in our care.

That really tells it how it is! Thank you for taking time out from your task to speak with the Review.