Regular readers of the Review will know from time to time we ask to speak with the Chief Inspector of Prisons, Dame Anne Owers. We last spoke in December 2005 (CR 40th Edition February 2006 page2) when the main topics were about overcrowding and lack of resources.

The strategy for the next decade needs to take account of the lessons learned during the 1980 and ‘90s. I paraphrase but that is essentially a recent statement originating from your office which sounded to me very much like a serious warning given additional weight by the nature of its source. What has prompted you to issue such a caution at this time?
Anne Owers Our prisons are becoming increasingly fractious, that is certainly true. We have raised concerns about safety in each of the last four prison inspections carried out.

What is the Inspectorate’s view on the level of prison officer training?
AO There is an opportunity now for newly entered prison staff to obtain an NVQ.  But we are still in the situation whereby a person completing six weeks of basic training is able to be a prison officer. We are the only country in Europe which allows a person to become a prison officer and do such a very difficult job on the back of so little training. To cover the range of skills required I don’t think we are putting nearly enough into prison officer training. Training is expensive but the really expensive thing is releasing people to be able to attend the training. Governors have resource constraints and it is becoming increasingly difficult to release people for training.
 

But surely there must come a time when training shows a benefit and allows the system to run better. Most managers are aware of that so why are prison managers not doing it?
AO Because first of all you have got to take the ‘hit’ and in a system that is constantly in crisis that is not possible. Managers can’t have staff out of the jail doing training courses because then it can’t run. In the long term, of course, it would be a benefit, we would have a better more effective system and fewer people would return to prison. But that would be quite a way down the line and far beyond the time for which people would be able to plan.

And possibly beyond the next election! What has been the effect of recent sentencing changes?
AO We now have these indeterminate sentences for public protection which I have said is a ‘worked example’ of how not to do things. There were 300 prisoners in this category just over three years ago, now there are nearly 5,000. Adding in life sentenced prisoners there is a total of 12,000 people in prison who don’t know when they are coming out. That figure is higher than the whole of the rest of western Europe put together. The situation is a vicious circle. Such people can’t be released until they have completed offender behaviour programmes and other interventions, but most are unable to attend such courses at the right time because the system can’t provide enough interventions for the right people in the right places at the right time. While that is the situation they add to prison overcrowding. The number of people serving indeterminate sentences is the fastest growing statistic in the prison population.
 

May I anticipate the next stage of the argument by saying that increased resources are not available to fund sufficient courses to enable the Service to break the vicious circle?
AO Broadly the answer is yes, but I think there are some bright spots. There are new moves to provide alternatives for prisoners with mental illnesses. We are expecting a report any time now about the possibility of diversion for some of those who are mentally ill. There is also some creative work going on about what we might do with women currently serving short sentences. The number of children and young people in prison has decreased slightly. So I believe there is some evidence of progress around the edges.
 

May we dwell on the problems associated with sentencing policy for women prisoners? How do you square gender equality with the special needs of women who offend?
AO I believe we don’t have to look at it differently, we need to look at it fairly. Equality doesn’t mean that everybody is treated the same, but that everybody has equality of outcome, that the consequences for people in a similar situations are the same.

Women in prison are not in exactly the same situation compared with men because very few of them have committed very serious violent offences, there is much more of a past history of abuse and mental illness, and many more are primary carers of children under 16 so there are generational consequences of sending them to prison. Women sent to prison are likely to be farther away from their homes than men. I don’t think you can say that if two people are guilty of the same offence with the same set of circumstances that a man should be sent to prison but not a woman. The circumstances of each individual should be examined before deciding on the most effective way of dealing with them –indeed there are men and young people for whom prison is not the most effective answer. The court simply must look at the circumstances surrounding the individual.
 

What is the current situation with young adults? Previously you have been scathing about their treatment. Has there been any change?
AO No, none at all except that increasingly young adults are not being held in separate establishments, they are being held in prisons with adults. For some young people that can be no bad thing because they can get access to training and vocational skills. But mostly they are a forgotten group and we are still finding, particularly in access to activities and exercise, that young adults are getting a raw deal and prison isn’t doing very much at all to improve their life chances. Topically, I’ve got a report coming out today from Lancaster Farms which concludes that the prison could not really be able to do anything to improve the life chances of the young men there. Young adults are among the most prolific reoffenders and, if we could deal with them properly at an early stage, it should be possible to turn things around. Our prisons at the moment are not geared for doing that.
 

Now that NOMS is in place and prisons and probation are joined at the head is there any signs of things getting better?
AO There has certainly been some improvement  for the minority of prisoners subject to offender management arrangements. It’s a mixed bag, some are working reasonably well while others not so well. NOMS is testing the ability of the prison and probation services to work together as well as dealing with population pressures that both services are experiencing. Probation is just as crowded, if invisibly, as the prisons. So there are considerable practical difficulties and also theoretical difficulties because prison and probation approach their work in a slightly different way. There is also the problem of distance – probation officers may be responsible for people 100 miles away.

A probation officer living in London will have to keep in touch with people scattered all over the country. Offender management certainly provides a method which, in some places, is being used quite effectively to manage people through the system but there is a huge number outside its influence. There are short sentenced prisoners, under 12 months, who won’t be dealt with at all by probation and life sentence prisoners are not yet in scope for offender management. However, it’s a step in the right direction and we are inspecting it jointly with our Probation Service colleagues.

 

Thank you Ma’am for taking time out from your busy schedule to speak with the Review.